Warning: this post contains scenes of graphic violence and dangerous opinions

The Books of Bayern are finalists for this year's Mythopoeic Award! the goose girl was a finalist its year, but I didn't realize that the Mythopoeic Awards often honor entire series of books. I'm honored for the whole series. It's a lovely award with a group of extremely fine finalists.

Some of you have wondered about the STD stats Janette Rallison referenced on my blog two posts ago. She elaborates on her own blog for those interested.

The comments on the previous posts have wandered over the topic of a book rating system. This is something that people have proposed many times, and was of great debate in the UK the past couple of years. I can see the appeal. We talk about parents reading the books their kids read. What if a parent has three voracious readers of all ages? How can he or she possibly keep up? If a book outlined the maturity level (different from age level) and listed some of the questionable topics, then wouldn't that be great for parents?

My problem is I just don't see how it can possibly work to any effect at all. I'd love to be convinced of this, but I don't see how it can function. It is so hard to take an incident out of a story's context. For example, book of a thousand days is often thought of as my most moral book. The main character has very strong personal values and is so courageous and loyal, I'm bitter I don't get to be her. I'm very proud of how that story turned out and would be thrilled to share it with any reader age 10-100. Now those of you who have read it, imagine if it were subjected to a rating system and came with a label that cautioned: Total Public Nudity, Violence, Parental Abuse, Sensuality, Warfare, Starvation, Religious Viewpoint. Goodness, what a smutty and morally objectionable title! It's sure to offend everyone! Burn it, I say! Burn away! How can any rating or warning sum up what a story tells or what a reader's response to it might be? What good would those labels really do? Think of all the books you've read that contained Sexual Content and how vastly different they are. There are some books with Sexual Content I would hope every twelve-year-old would read, and others I would never read myself.

Think about the books you studied in high school English class and the warning labels that would accompany those. But those were (most likely) adult books, so they wouldn't have labels. They're given to kids, but wouldn't be labeled like children's books would. Instead, the entire YA section, which in my mind are far more age-appropriate than Hemingway, Steinbeck, Chaucer, etc., would be branded. Imagine all those parents eyeballing the labels, forbidding their kids from reading books that might have had huge positive impact on their lives.

Realistically, the kids who self-monitor their reading would put down a book themselves once they hit a passage they were uncomfortable with. And the other kids, the ones parents are probably most worried about, wouldn't they be more attracted to a book that advertised "Sexual Content, Graphic Violence!" I'm making these words larger because they are what would stand out. They would stand out to school districts and school libraries who might be pressured to ban any books with certain kinds of content, no matter the context and value.

I want to add, too, that I think this is a system that could be misunderstood and abused by either side of the continuum. Sometimes we shout the loudest about those darn conservatives who are too jumpy about sex and violence and diverse lifestyles. But the truth is that half the voices of protest come from those darn liberals who are too jumpy about religion and conservative values. This is not a conservative nor a liberal issue. It's just a matter of will a book rating system really accomplish what we hope it would? Or will it backfire and in turn limit freedom of speech for people of all beliefs?

Comment away!

Comments

[Michelle Witte]

I've considered both sides of this debate, and your comments are right on. They're also very timely as Common Sense Media's book rating system is becoming more popular. I was disturbed to see a label of "nudity" attached to a Dr Seuss book—there was an illustration of a baby's bottom in Happy Birthday to You! How dare someone show a naked baby when talking about his birth!

It's a discussion that should happen, and I'm glad such a reasoned argument is starting it.

[Stacey (AKA Aubrey)]

I think with anything it is a pro-con system. That is why I take solace in reading lots of book blogs, and doing my own so that I can talk about content in a realistic way, and find out when a book has content I may not want to read about.

[Leisha Maw]

Congrats on your series! As for book ratings, how can you sum up thousands of words, their meanings, intent, beauty, and flavor with labels like: graphic, nudity, violence, and religious viewpoint?

As with the Dr. Suess book the former comment mentioned, and your own example of Book of a Thousand Days(which I loved), the label misses the boat. I wouldn't want my own writing to be mislabeled.

[anilee]

Agreed. I'm against a rating system, especially because I know how harmful it would have been to me. (Now, I'm eighteen, so it's like, big deal, but then, I'm not sure I want to be carrying around a book with SEXUAL CONTENT stamped on it, thank you very much. That would bother me way more than any of the actual content because hello? Public judgement? No thanks.) But when I was younger, I wanted things to be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. No swearing, no sex, no anything. And if books had been marked like movies...I probably would never have started seriously reading YA. I would have failed to grow up and be able to deal with adult situations.

Oh, maybe I would have, but it would have been a lot harder. It's not that I'm advocating desensitizing ourselves to these things or anything, but I think that it is true that eventually, by exposing yourself to violence or swearing, you become able to look at it objectively. It might always bother you a little, but you just are able to move past it and get to the story. And when you don't know the content going in...you can either put the book down or you can keep reading because the book is just so good.

Because context? It's really important, and ratings can't include context at all? I mean, I've read books were a lot of swearing did not bother me at all. In fact, I've read books where the LACK of swearing bothered me because it didn't seem believable. But then, to be fair, I've also read books where the swearing seemed out of place, so it DID bother me. And like, much as I love Legally Blonde, wouldn't it have been better if it had be PG? I think so, but then, I watch plenty of PG13 and R movies, so it's not like the content itself makes me uncomfortable. It just seems out of place.

A rating can't possibly reflect how realistic or how *good* a book is, and I think that's the problem. I don't think we should let children and teens miss out on good books, just because of content.

[Jo Treggiari]

I think that most young readers will put a book down if they come to something which makes them personally uncomfortable or they'll skip over the offending passage or they'll ask their parents about it, all of which are positive parts of growing up and learning.
I think it's impossible to reduce something as nuanced and multi-faceted as a book to a few descriptive words. And who will be responsible for deciding which epithets to attach to each book? Or will it be done by computers on the look out for words like 'breast' and 'panting'?
I will say that I worked in the music industry when the PMRC began labeling CDs with parental advisory stickers. The releases with the stickers far outsold the 'safe' titles. Sometimes we would put an explicit lyrics sticker on a CD that had no bad words in it, merely to bump sales up a bit.
Thanks for bringing this up.

[Q]

If parents are doing their job, they shouldn't have to worry about the kind of books their kids read.

Period.

[Elizabeth]

I don't like the idea of rating system. People have differing levels of maturity and morality. There are books that may end up in the junior fiction section that my oldest has started reading and then stopped because of the creep value.

I think an age suggestion has come in handy on many occasions. I've seen this on a lot of books distributed by Scholastic. Do you know what the standards are for placing a book in the junior fiction section versus the young adult section, btw? The majority of Shannon Hale books I've seen at my library are in the young adult section. But I think some of them would easily be appropriate for my 11 year old.

As to reading the books my kids read, I couldn't possibly keep up. I have 3 very avid readers (11,9,7)and I read a lot. I love to escape thru reading and to me it's like telling your kids what dreams they are allowed to have.

I get book suggestions from Goodreads, Amazon, friends and the librarians. I like the rating system on Goodreads. I've found so many great books thru those suggestions on Amazon. I think maybe if the library websites did something like that "If you liked *** you might enjoy ***".

I don't like the idea of banning books. I never have. Who's to say what should be banned? I recently read The Catcher in the Rye. I have no clue as to why it's been banned. The language was not to my taste but the writing style was amazing.

I don't know why we always tend toward controlling things. Why not ages suggestions and from there recommendations and reviews.

[melissa @ 1lbr]

I'm with you on not putting labels on books. On the flip side, I review books and I mention the kinds of "mature" content in them. I don't put a rating on the whole book based on those things, but I note about how much and how graphic I think it is. And, of course, it is very much subjective - based on my own opinion (and sometimes what I can remember). Sometimes I like to know before going in what will be in the book. Sometimes it's better not to know, since I might not have picked it up otherwise and missed out on a great book. But labeling YA and kids books is just asking for bannings and censorship and trouble. Let's not start that.

[Je Reve]

I am really loving the morality in books thing...

There are degrees of separation that define the point-blank yes or no rules for reading, but beyond that, personal judgement and maturity must be employed.

[Carmen]

I had to read To Kill A Mockingbird for English class last year, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It taught an incredible lesson about integrity, and it couldn't have conveyed such a message without all the "bad" stuff.

I always read a book's blurb before starting the book itself. That helps me judge whether it's the kind of book I'm looking for.

Also, "Religious Viewpoint" sticker aside, has anyone considered the Bible? Parents would never allow their children to even look at it.

[Val]

Well put, Ms. Hale! And how exciting about the award!

I'm just thinking about how negatively so many children's classics would be rated. For example...

Matilda: child abuse, parental abandonment

The Giver: murder, starvation, sexuality, war, drug use

Alice in Wonderland: child abuse, death threats, drugs

[Christy]

I tend to disagree. Look at the movie rating system. It's fairly broad yet I feel lets parents know when to be particularly cautious about screening a movie before allowing their children to see it. There have been plenty of PG-13 rated movies that we have allowed my son to see (i.e. Harry Potter) but there are also some PG rated movies that I would not let him see. It's more about giving parents a heads up than censorship.

[Ruby Diamond]

Y'know, I'm not totally opposed to a rating system. Probably because I just read a book put out by Tokopop (a manga publisher) that had a rating on the back. It says, "Fantasy, T Teen Age 13+, May include Aggression, Mild Sexuality, Mild Gore." And really I think that's about right for this book. It's in very small print, so it doesn't jump out at you, and there's also a nice plot summary on the back. It's not like the rating is the only info I'm getting.

I think it can be nice to have some general guidelines, especially if you're picking up a title you've never heard of before. I grabbed a graphic novel off the shelf at my library and looked at the back to see what it was about, and saw "ages 7+" stamped on there (again, by the publisher). I thought, "well, I could take a chance on this. It may not end up being my fave, but it's not going to be smutty."

A publisher putting ratings on it's own books doesn't sound so bad to me -- they're invested in selling the book and chances are that whoever is rating it has read the whole thing, context and all. (though Jo's comment about adding unnecessary advisory labels was interesting).

I think the real problem would be if a rating system was mandated across the board, and if some outside company decided to do the rating. An outside company might get overwhelmed and not read the book, for instance.

[Bonnie Mainord]

I agree whole-heartedly! I believe parents should certainly try to read along with their child, or at least be aware of what is in the book as much as they can be. Nevertheless, perhaps guiding a child to recognize what makes them uncomfortable and choosing to put the book down would be a better way to help one's children. Besides, you said it well - that some books may "technically" contain something that, when labeled, sounds disparaging and inappropriate, but in reality touches on a subject that may impact young lives and inspire their view of their own place in the world. And isn't that why the human race reads and writes?

[Emily]

I think you are absolutely spot on here. You just can't sum up an entire book (worldview, values, etc) in a couple of words. And I'd hate to have really good books skipped over by parents who were put off by "nudity, sexual content". There is a time and place for nudity and sexual content, and the fact that they exist in a book does NOT mean that the book is bad! As one of my college professors was fond of saying, "context, context, context!" A rating system like this utterly ignores context.

[Karen Adair]

I remember the first time I read a book out loud to my children and found myself editing it for language. None of them even knew what I was doing until the third or fourth time I paused and they asked me if I was having trouble reading. I explained to them what I was doing, and they let me continue on with the required reading. I didn't hear any complaints about missing elements and in fact in another "mommy-edited" book the kids loved it so much they wanted to immediately go out and buy it. While I'm pleased with my book editing skills, I'm disappointed whenever I have to do such a thing. But here's the key. I didn't have a warning label, one of the books was required reading, AND it was a good story. It just needed some personal editing. The key is parental involvement for those concerned with book content, not warning labels. Especially with ones we have no choice but to let our children read for classroom discussion. I remember being wholly offended at a pg-13 rated film years ago because of full frontal nudity. Other pg-13 rated films look a lot like pg and make me wonder who sets the rating. Until a consistent method for content can be developed I agree that labels can still be misleading and unhelpful. Hurrah for simple parent oversight for now. :)

[Enna Isilee]

Hm... You're right iin that a rating system would probably judge a book too harshly and bluntly to be a good way to judge a book. Personally, I just ask people's opinions. The only thing that really bothers me in novels is profanity. I use book blogs, Shelfari, GoodReads, and amazon to figure out how the book is being recieved before I read it.

[Laurie]

My mom filtered my books really strictly as a kid. This was good because it put me on a fast track to reading the classics, but it was bad in that I still snuck around and read almost everything she told me not to. Some of the stuff on her hit list was perfectly harmless, and some of it was legitimately tasteless. I read it all anyway.

For my kids (and there aren't any yet), I think the best I can do is teach them to put a book down if it has anything in it that makes them uncomfortable. That way they start promoting their own filtering system immediately. And hopefully they'd feel comfortable talking to me about what they read and we can be on the same page, dictating whether it's a gem of a book or one giant poop sandwich.

[tawnya]

Funny. Was just talking this SAME thing on my blog today. I was NEVER censored and don't plan on it for my kid. Was actually caught off guard at the thought, this week!

http://drawntotheflame.blogspot.com/2010/06/because-books-are-on-my-mind.html

[A Swally]

I agree with Shannon Hale. As much as it would be nice to have a book rating system, it wouldn't work. I read Book of a Thousand Days, and it was wonderful and I thought it was totally appropriate. I it got labeled with public nudity, people wouldn't read it, when it is okay. I have read many books that would be labeled poorly. There simply isn't a way to have a book rating system that could explain the context of things in the book. I think that the best way to find out if a book you are going to read is appropriate is to ask someone you know. About a month ago, there was a book I wanted to read, but I wasn't sure of its content, so I asked my mom to read it first. She said that she wouldn't recommend it to me until I was older, so I didn't read it. I would recommend if you aren't sure about a book, find someone who has read it.
Shannon, I think it's great that you post you views on things on this blog. It makes people think, and I like it because I get to know you a little. You are a great writer. Thanks for writing wonderful stories!

[lcdarkmoon]

One romance publisher (I can't remember which one) rate's their books with flames for how steamy they are. One flame would be just holding hands at the most, two flames might be one good kiss, and five flames would be, well, you get the point. I like this system because it doesn't brand books with labels but it still accurately let's you know what you're going to read.

[Princess Loucida]

I think that the rating system just needs a little work. Something like Icdarkmoon said. One star, two star, ect. star.

For example, one star whould be fine for children 5+, 2 star-10+ or somthing like that.

I don't think that they should use words to describe it however. How can 6 words describe a story that took 300 words to tell?

So I am somewhat neutral. I think that there should be some rating system, just not the one they have now.

[Lexie Hogan]

I've found one website that is really great for finding out what's in a book. It is called Common Sense Media (http://www.commonsensemedia.org/)and outlines all the types of content in it as well as the moral of the story and what you should talk to your kids about.

[Amanda Norr]

With the movies rating system, you still get to see previews and decide for yourself. As for book ratings, I think I like the system now. Most of the books I read have been recommended to me, including the Goose Girl. I also like review from sites like amazon and book blogs. I have loved everything you have written and a few other authors, but I have also read a book from one author, tried another of their books and had a bad experience. I rely heavily on certain peoples opinion and am leery of others based on experience. I do know however that you can't rate books like movies, where would you find the preview. I also don't think that we need to read everything our kids read, we can get them to tell us about what they are reading and if we are then not sure, we can read it ourselves.

[Jennie]

Here's why I worry about rating systems-- when the MPCC started putting the profanity stickers on CDs, my local CD store stopped selling them to me because I was obviously under 18. I had to get my mom to come to the store with me in order to buy them. MORTIFYING. I was lucky enough to have a mom cool enough to go with me to buy CDs with naughty words, and eventually I got over it, but the chances of well-meaning or over cautious adults keeping books out of the hands of kids is too high.

I read a lot of things that would make people gasp when I was growing up. I didn't *do* any of the things described in the books I read, but they helped me see the shades of gray in my world, and helped me understand my classmates and why they did such things. When I was an adult and ready to do adult things, I was well prepared, because I had been reading about such situations for years.

[jenifer]

Readers have the right to be INFORMED. We have the right to know what is in the book, BEFORE we buy it or read it. In this country, you can't even feed your child a TWINKIE without knowing the ingredients. KNOWING what is in a book does not change the book at all. It allows us to have informed decisions when choosing. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SPEND HOURS OF OUR TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER A BOOK IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO READ.

Why is it that we allow PUBLISHERS and MARKETING experts to appeal to us and our children without any regulations?

Ratings do not censor, ratings INFORM. I am an adult. EVERY TIME I go to the library I am frustrated. I don't want to waste my time reading a book that is full of bad language and sex scenes. And, I CAN'T TELL from the cover what is really in the book.

I was at the library today and talked to a librarian. They have a hard time BUYING books, because all they have to go by is the summary from the publisher and the book reviews. !!???

There are ratings on movies, video games and detailed labels on food... i don't see that parents or schools are censoring uncontrollably just because we know the rating. Twinkies are still on the shelf! And MANY kids are allowed to play M-Mature games.

People are smart. When given the necessary information, we can choose for ourselves. My children are smart... they can go to a school library and choose for themselves IF the information is available to them. Letting them know that a certain book contains bad language and partial nudity doesn't limit their ability to choose. It strengthens it. Information is POWERFUL.

We can tell the difference between nudity in a Dr. Suess book, implied sexuality in Shakespeare, and detailed sex in a Harlequin. Ratings are smart too... N for brief nudity, N+ for graphic nudity, S for mild sexual situations, S+ for explicit sexual situations. Ratings don't limit choice. Ratings just give us more input to choose with.

As consumers, we have a RIGHT to know what we are reading BEFORE we buy it, BEFORE we hand it to our children, BEFORE we get 30 pages in.

Book RATINGS are long overdue.

hah! i really had no idea how passionate i am about this issue until i started commenting on your blogs.

i love books.
i hate being deceived into reading something i would never knowingly choose.
i want the choice.
i want my children to have the choice what they read and what they do not read.
the problem is, without ratings, all they have is a cover designed by a publisher to SELL.
that is deceptive.

the end.
of my book.

[Bookworm :)]

I ponder upon this topic nearly every day!

I'm a kid, and ever since I started reading chapter books (in what, first grade?) I have been very, very, VERY careful about what I read. I usually have to hear from a reliable source that a book is okay to read.
But some kids aren't like that. They could care less. Some of my friends who are the same age as me read books that have content I don't want to read for a few more years! They have different opinions. The guys who rate the books may have different opinions than I do. Book ratings would not work very well because of that. It's all about opinions.

And in my opinion, any book by Shannon Hale has a five-star rating! :)

[AudryT]

When the Common Sense Media ratings were integrated into the Barnes & Noble website, it raised serious concerns by authors and readers who felt the summarized ratings box was mis-representing book content and providing a shortcut for parents and others who might want to censor access to books for their kids and/or community for phobic, racist and sexist reasons. My understanding is that the CSM website is more thorough because it provides discussion of every book's content, but the ratings system they briefly provided B&N with was only useful for censorship of the most extreme and thoughtless kind -- the easy, convenient snap judgement.

That's also the sort of judgement the rating on the back of a book cover could be used for. Not just by parents, but by librarians, store owners, online vendors, reviewers, and others who influence what books are available in their local community. Instead of thinking about how you would use a rating, think about how the most narrow-minded and controlling person you know would use it. Do you want to make it that much easier for them to make a snap-judgement about a book and then attempt to take it away from your community and/or your children?

On a related note, the Apple app store censors content. What standards do they use? Who gets to decide what's okay and what's not? Does that person give a snot about your standards and opinions as a parent with a kid who owns an Apple product (iPhone, iPod, etc.)? They don't. They take content away from you and you don't even know what it is. They take that content away based on an internal checklist you've never seen.

Ratings are a checklist. Checklists are a dangerous thing when they're used for censorship. They can inhibit free speech and attempt to dictate beliefs, as Apple is dictating what it believes consumers should and shouldn't be able to expose their kids to.

What if Apple had the only bookstore in the world, and someone at Apple had a bias against your race, religion, political beliefs, gender, so on?

What books would you not even know about, because Apple used a checklist to keep them from getting distributed?

[Kristine]

I'm all for a rating system. It may not be perfect, but at least it is something. I know the movie ratings are not perfect, but they give you some heads-up on the content.
I don't think it limits free speech in anyway. Authors can still write what they want, but as a reader, I can make a better decision on what my kids and I read.
If you don't think the rating system is good enough, then just ignore the ratings and read what you want anyway.

[Sherry]

I'm opposed to a book rating system. I don't see why anyone would want some nameless third party coming in to try to make decisions for us. I have my own values and morals and I know those won't match up with those of the raters or even the people on this board.
If I was on the rating board I can guarantee that the people who insist on a rating system would not approve of my more liberal ratings. Similarly, I'd be ticked at what I perceive to be overly conservative ratings. It's all perspective and when it comes to my children and myself I'm not really interested in the perspective of a company paid to make ratings.
I find a rating system utterly useless, even with movies. That movies such as Pan's Labrynth or Schindler's List (and I fully intend on showing my children Schindler's List when they are able to understand and appreciate it) receive the same rating as Wedding Crashers is ridiculous. My children can get into a movie with no social substance such as Austin Powers and value without my permission, but to watch something about our political past like Charlie Wilson's War they have to have an adult buy their ticket? I see something seriously wrong with that.
Book ratings would be no different. You're taking a book out of context to apply it to a pre-formed ratings guide. What a disservice to readers and authors alike.
I agree with those before, go and read reviews and websites to find out about the book. That is powerful knowledge because it is about how the books fit with people and not how they fit a book into a rating system.

[Jenn]

What about Shakespeare? If you understand the language, his plays are extreemly suggestive and inappropriate. Yet we read 'Romeo and Juliet' in 7th grade and our teacher 'censored' a great deal by not explaining to us the true meaning of what characters said. I, who already understood a great deal of the Shakespearian language, understood the story for what it was, and developed a great distaste for it. If a ratings system were put in place, the ratings would be astronomical, but it's not even like the majority of people reading understand what's going on. I think the categorizing system of naming books as YA, youth, or adult is enough. I've been chastised for reading 'kid's books' as an 18-year-old (for reading The Hunger Games, no less!) but the truth is I find that YA books have much less sexual content than 'adult' novels, and I just don't want to read about that stuff.

[Meredith B.]

The company I've worked for is experimenting in a small way with a system for notifying parents of the content of books, if the parents wanted to go looking for that information. Now, I am a children's bookseller who has spent the last several years reading YA books, listening to the questions and concerns of both parents and their children, and trying to help them make book choices that they're comfortable and happy with. And I am here to tell you that the rating systems just don't work.

They just don't. They don't give you any context and they don't give you enough information. They are always confusing and usually (unintentionally of course) misleading. The only way to tell whether you're comfortable with your child reading a book or not is to read it yourself, or discuss it in some level of detail with someone who has read the book, and who you have a high level of understanding and trust with.

[Jenifer]

Are we talking about 2 seperate things?

I would imagine a book rating system like the movie rating system... a small label on the back of the book that says "PG for violence and minor sexual content". Not an Amazon customer satisfaction rating- 5 stars vs. 2 stars.

Lego Star Wars is rated E for Everyone with the notes "crude humor and cartoon violence". This seems pretty objective. If I want to really understand what they are talking about I can play the game. But, this rating gives me a starting place. I can still choose to play the game or not play the game.

Book of a Thousand Days, rated E for Everyone with "mild nudity, violence and mature themes".
Thanks for telling me... I still have a CHOICE to read or not to read.
How does a rating system limit my choice in any way?

I really don't understand why this would be so horrible.

[Jenn]

I agree that a book rating system could never be perfect. But I also agree that there should be SOMETHING. And if your book gets a rating of "Brief Nudity" all the better for your sales, according to a lot of people who have commented here, right???

People are talking about the R rating a lot on here. But what about X? And Triple X? Maybe you're not, but I'm DAMN glad those movies have ratings so I can avoid them instead of going into a movie store and wondering based on the cover and the description and rave reviews whether it's one of the awesome romances I'll be so glad I saw or a pile of smut and filth. I'm also glad I don't have to watch all of them first before I let my kids watch them!!!

[AudryT]

Kristine, the existence of ratings directly influences media content. Many movies and video games have been altered solely to accomodate ratings systems, and not for the sake of art or theme or the needs of the audience. It works in two ways:

1.) Movies/games add gratuitous content to get a higher rating, because that often sells better. Movies will work hard to get a PG-13 rating because they know that many teenagers assume PG movies are "for kids."

2.) Movies/games often remove content crucial to plot or character development to get a lower rating, so that a sophisticated movie meant for adults can end up with a PG-13 rating instead of an R simply because it has no nudity or extreme violence. This means a wider audience and more money at the box office, but it can also mean kids seeing movies they are not ready to digest due to complexity or seriousness of content.

Ratings would put pressure on authors to censor themselves in the writing phase, to make it more likely that their book would sell in a ratings-influenced publishing industry. Some writers already bow to cultural pressure and betray their own vision in favor of pleasing their community or their publisher. We really don't need yet another reason to suffocate their work.

[Jenn]

Okay, so it's late at night and maybe I was too abrupt. I'm sure people will say that I should read reviews and watch trailers and then I will know what kind of movie it is without the rating. And sometimes I do that. But sometimes I don't. And sometimes they're misleading! And haven't you ever just impulsively bought a book because it's so shiny and flashy and the premise seems so perfect and the first page is so catchy?? Sometimes it delivers and sometimes it soooo doesn't.

Anyway, this conversation has at least sparked a great debate and given me a lot to think about.

[Barbara Moon]

I read YA fiction. A LOT. It's my job. I am continually surprised at how many adults read books published for young adults. I also find that a book may be published as an adult book in one country and published again in another country as a book for young adults - The Book Thief immediately springs to mind here. (While it won a Printz Honor Award, it has probably been read and discussed by more adults than comparable "adult" titles.) As you pointed out in your post, even "required" readings in school blur the lines between adult and young adult literature. The audience for young adult literature is do diverse - 12 year olds moving into middle school, urban 16 year olds struggling to survive, middle-aged women reliving their romantic fantasies - that it seems impossible to mandate a meaningful rating system.
Having said that, there is a lot of junk out there in the world of books. A LOT OF JUNK. Who will help sort through the junk to find the gems?
Might I humbly suggest librarians? That is part of our job to help each reader find the book that is just right for him/her. Librarians know what's out there and they can guide wondering parents and teens to books that will inform, entertain, and delight each individual reader. Librarians are the solution to this vexing problem. Instead of looking for two stars or three flames, how about talking to your local librarian. He/she might be able to help you discover the "perfect" book for you.

[Sheri]

I agree with you, Shannon, re the ratings system not being good enough. I'm not a huge movie watcher but as one of those jumpy conservatives I've found that some "R" movies are more moral than many PG-13 movies. Many of the books I consider highly moral-The Picture of Dorian Gray, for one instance (adult book) would be labelled abundantly. There are other books with no repugnant content that I consider to be absolutely inane and even dangerous because they present things like selfishness as leading to reward. Anyway, that's just my opinion...

[Lia]

It's so true. You can't sum up the content of a book in a few simple words.

For those interested in having a rating system, why not set up a website that informs parents and others about the content of books? When I want to see if a movie is appropriate, I mostly ignore the rating, but I do go straight to the website imdb.com and check out the parental advisory. This way I know exactly what kind of "violence" or "sensuality" we're talking about.

[Marisa]

Wow, there are so many arguments for each side of this issue. I think any sort of rating system would have to be very carefully done to be effective, but I worry that it's not a good idea.

Even though there are countless books that contain smut that I wouldn't read myself, stories can be a great way for younger readers to learn about certain "adult topics" as opposed to movies which I think are harsher because of their visual format. As a child and later as a teenager I encountered things in books that I didn't fully understand (for example foreign customs, racism, rape, etc.) but I was able to discuss them with my mom. Although there would have been no way for my mom to read every book I and all my siblings read, she asked us about what books we were reading and we talked about them. I don't ever remember her forbidding me to read anything. Instead we discussed issues of right and wrong, and why it's a good idea to avoid certain kinds of books and movies. Beyond that, I was free to make my own decisions. I knew what she thought and for me, that was enough. On occassion I chose books that she probably didn't approve of or were at a level to mature for me but that was rare and honestly, I usually didn't understand them anyway.

I agree that certain ratings would turn parents off of books and in turn make some kids want to read them even more. I know a 12 year old girl who loves the Twilight books but she was only allowed to read the first two. Her mom said she had to wait a few years before reading the third and fourth. After explaining all of this to me she didn't hesitate to add "I've read the first half of my friend's copy of the third book even though my mom doesn't know." I don't really blame her mom for wanting her to hold off on those books, they do have more mature content than the others but it made me wonder what I would do if I was the mother. As this example shows, parents can't really control what their kids read anyway so wouldn't it be better to discuss some of these issues rather than them sneaking around and trying to figure it all out based on their limited knowledge of mature topics? Not to mention their friends' limited knowlege. I remember a friend of mine telling me what sex was when we were in elementary school. She was way off, but thank goodness I had a mother who talked to me about life issues and who I felt comfortable to go to with questions about these things.

My point is this: A rating system (if done properly) could possibly be a helpful starting point for some people but a child having a trusting relationship with a good parent is far more valuable and effective in protecting and educating kids. Easier said than done I guess, but there it is.

[Trevor]

Book of a Thousand Days, rated E for Everyone with "mild nudity, violence and mature themes".
Thanks for telling me... I still have a CHOICE to read or not to read.

I think this perfectly illustrates why ratings aren't sufficient (I think they're a bad idea in any case). This says mild nudity. Must be a clear concept to the person giving he rating, but I have no idea what mild nudity is. In what context? Is it sensual? What does "mild" mean? There's a value judgment right there. Apparently this person thought it was "tasteful" or "harmless"; it is appropriate for Everyone.

Violence. How? Are two kids fighting after school? Did someone get hurt, a broken jaw, beat up? Does an adult whip a child, beat a child? That does happen in books for children. Perhaps some need this topic in books to help them understand something going on in their own life. Perhaps there are children who wouldn't stomach this. But this reviewer thought that Everyone could read it, No One will be offended or shaken up.

And "mature themes"? Sex? Abandonment? Child abuse? War? Incest? Teenage pregnancy? It is rated E for Everyone but has Mature themes. How can I trust that the person writing this rating agrees with my own standards for what mature themes my child can read? According to this rating my child, anyone's child, Everyone can read whatever mature themes are in this book with no fear. It looks like this rater is suggesting there are some mature themes that are appropriate for Everyone; what is unsaid is that the person who wrote this rating is making a subjective judgment about what is mature, this book dealt with that mature theme so well, Everyone can read it. Say the mature theme is child abuse. This book deals with the subject "tastefully," so slap an E on it, give it to everyone, parents will thank me that I've screened this book so they don't have to. This other book, though, didn't sit well with me -- give it an M!

There's a reason the Supreme Court stopped screening books and movies for "profanity." Besides being entirely unqualified to tell me what is appropriate, It is impossible to define these words any way other than, "I know it when I see it." What is vulgar to you might be artful and, even tasteful, to me; an vice versa. "Mature" and "Everyone" don't sit well next to each other, unless there's context to understand this judgment -- and that is subjective.

[Trevor]

So there are my two-cents' worth regarding why I don't think book ratings would work. Now, just a couple more on why I think they're a bad idea anyway.

First, I love the comment above that illustrates the effect ratings have on aesthetics. Books already have a lot of marketing influences fighting against their content (your book just isn't the type that's selling this year -- last year was your window). Add a rating to this mess and soon we will have (well, we already do): "Look, we need to be able to put 'mild nudity' on the back of your book. You've got to make sure that's in your book. That'll push you into of the market we're targeting. Your readers demand it, and we'll sell 18% more books than if you don't. Of course, if you don't put that in, that means we wouldn't be able to publish your book. We just have to have 'mild nudity' on the back of your book for it to sell. While you're at it, it wouldn't hurt to put in just a hint more violence -- just cram it in anywhere, we only care what the back of the book says, not what's in it." I'm being facetious . . . well, on second thought, I don't think I am.

Second, ratings on books would start a trend of censorship in the classroom. If someone were putting ratings on the back of all books, school boards would eventually cave to parental demands that their fourth-grader be allowed to read only books rated "E" flat. And, at that point, who can argue that the children actually should be allowed to read one rated 13 or what-have-you? This unavoidable state-sponsored censorship would happen -- surely -- were ratings printed on books, causing young adults to miss out on many wonderful, sometimes painfully wonderful, reading experiences. "Sanitization" would lead to a sterile education. This happens enough; ratings would exacerbate the problem.

You may follow any form of rating that you wish as long as the book itself remains untouched. Commission a fully comprehensive website run by third-parties. Help your own children determine what they can read and don't get involved in what mine can.

[Amanda M]

Shannon, I completely agree with what you have said. I live the experience of having three voracious readers, two of whom are able to read way above their grade level. I try to read as much as I can that they read, but they inevitably outread me. I think that once we have taught our children to self monitor what they read, some of the best options for us to use are privately maintained blogs and websites. One of my favorites is facts on fiction, they give you facts, not ratings and not opinions.

[Rick]

The kinds of content review sources I find unhelpful: the anonymous, simplistic rating system, such as the movie rating system. What does PG mean? Sometimes, pretty good. Sometimes, pretty gross. There's not much information there. I've shown my kids R-rated movies that I thought were amazingly moral. And I wouldn't let them watch G and PG movies that I thought were despicable.

The kind of rating or review that I find helpful: the single, known reviewer. I can soon discover if I agree with their views, and if so, then I can trust their view. And there are some reviewers who, if they disapprove of a book or movie, I know I will like it.

The other kind of review/rating system that I like-- okay I'm revising my thoughts here-- I've decided I don't like any type of rating system. Because what I want is information. I want to know what's in the book, in context, without judgment. Sure, I could read the book to find that out, but I don't have the time all the time. I love the Screen-it model, where it lists specific occurrences of things that some might find offensive. I don't really like their rating system, because it seems to be based more on volume than on intensity, and it doesn't usually take context into account. But I find that if I want to get a feel for whether a movie is right for my kids or not, Screen-it tells me what I want to know. Though sometimes reading their descriptions is as graphic an experience as watching the movie.

So, ratings, unhelpful. Information, as long as I understand the source, and the context, can be just what I'm looking for.

[AP]

I'm hoping my comment somewhat covers the last 3 posts you have done (which by the way, thank you so much for addressing these issues. As an aspiring writer, I love to see the good and the bad I will be faced with once I'm actually a published author. Your blog is the most insightful of all the other authors I am currently following.) - I feel that the more you shelter someone [a child] the more curious they are going to be. ESPECIALLY if they go to public school and are thrown in with less than sheltered children. My family for instance: I have two younger siblings currently attending high school. My parents have been very open with addressing sticky matters that would usually make other parents/adults break out into a nervous sweat at the mere mention of. Sex, drugs, violence, STDs, teen pregnancy, drinking alcohol etc. I feel that because my siblings are well educated on the subject (but nowhere near perfect), they are less curious about aforementioned subjects thus choosing less racy media to bring into their lives. They don't have to go looking for books or movies with sexual content because they've been informed and hold it in high respect. They don't cuss because they've been taught that there are far more creative adjectives to describe something other than the cliche four letter words others would choose; and the list goes on. However my two youngest siblings are home schooled. They are only around their family and friends they see at church. They are far more sheltered and, in my opinion, more curious about the world simply because they haven't been informed yet. I believe children should be taught not to be afraid of things like sex and drugs or alcohol and such, but to be AWARE and know of the consequences that come with things like that. Like the one author mentioned do people realize that 80% of people receive STDs from unprotected/unsafe sex? Probably not, because in a lot of literature/movies and even songs, there is no consequence. When I was younger I LOVED Jack Weyland's books because of how controversial they were within my religion. He addressed such issues as rape, teen drinking, teen sex, eating disorders etc. but he also addressed the consequences of what came with those choices. Because of many of many of his books, I made better choices pertaining to who I wanted to be as a young woman. Can you teach a child that something is hot simply by telling them its hot? No. You teach them what will happen if they touch something that is hot. And although they may not grasp the concept of burns right away, they will understand the more the learn about it. And quite frankly, sometimes the best way to teach a child is through example, even if its a bad example. No child could ever grasp the responsibility of a pet without actually having one first, right? You can tell them all the components to owning a dog but they will never understand until they've actually taken that dog for walks, given him baths, fed him and groomed him. Just telling a child "dogs are a BIG responsibility! You have to walk them twice a day and bathe them a few times a week, feed them everyday take them to get shots etc." doesn't actually work. All those things sound fun and exciting and like minimal amounts of work until they've actually done it.
The more you keep from a child/teen the more curious they will be and in some instances will actually go looking for it. They will find out what's good and what's bad by experimentation alone. Why not get one step ahead of them and allow them to read or watch things that may be questionable and then speak with them about what went on, how it made them feel and teach them the consequences. As well as be approachable to uncomfortable subjects. Otherwise, your kids will go looking for a hot stove to touch and get burned.

I apologize if this is monotonous. I tend to over-speak. :)

[Justina]

Seriously? A book rating system would never work. My rule is: if i'm uncomfortable with a books content i'll put it down or skip the scene and that's what kids should be told too. I'd also like to mention this- the best part about books is that in truth we control them. Our individual minds really decide what the scenes look like and what exactly we feel/think is going on. That said, it'd be impossible to rate books when everything is so different to each reader. One scene matters greatly to one reader and doesn't matter at all to another. I don't know if I'm getting what I want to saw across exactly. But, I feel strongly that book rating systems would never and could never work!!!!

[Rebecca]

I was an advanced reader so I was pushed into reading adult books at an age before I was emotionally read for them. After a couple with really disturbing content I just ignored my teachers' advice and went back to children's and YA books. I probably would have read more adult books back then if I could have known to avoid the really disturbing ones, but I don't think my reading abilities suffered any from not reading many adult books in middle school, so in the long run I can't say whether book ratings would have helped me, I just went back to YA/middle grade books only and was fine.

I don't think I suffered long term damage from reading that book, but I wasn't happy at 12 years old reading about a character being put through a really graphic forced abortion after her forbidden love affair was discovered.

[Camille Cortello]

Hmm, I've never thought about it like that before. I have always been a big fan of rating books as I have had some problems in the past with inappropriate books to the extreme and thought it would be very helpful to those of us who don't really want to get into the juicy details that would make us very uncomfortable. You bring up a very good point of view, one I wouldn't have thought of. Perhaps what they need is a guide of what to look for before you start reading to make sure you want to read it. There have been many books that I get about half way through and then they start to show their true colors, but by then I am sucked into the book and don't want to stop, thinking it can't go like this the whole time.

[Bekah]

No, I don't think it would have any harm against freedom of speech, because I think that even if those labels were on Book of Thousand Days, I think the people who weren't offended by the parts that were labeled under violence, etc. would not pick up the book and enjoy it because I think we all know what we tolerate, and if you know you tolerate sexual content in some stories you know that it may or may not be offensive to you in the story you pick up. If it's ALWAYS offensive to you you'd know not to even try it.

[Bekah]

*** typo: I think the people who weren't offended by the parts that were labeled under violence, etc. would STILL pick up the book and enjoy it even with the said labels (because people know that sometimes they can tolerate some violence, nudity etc.) and the people who WERE offended by those parts might not have read the book and might not have put a bad name to it.