"I knew he loved me when he hocked a logie at my face."

That happened to me. Fifth grade. Gavin. It landed near my nose and I could smell it. I felt humiliated and denigrated, but I didn't report it to the teacher or anyone.

Last week I was with a friend when her 5-year-old daughter reported that a boy her age had been pushing her consistently. Her mother comforted her by telling her that this meant the boy liked her, that when boys like girls they didn't know how to express it so they showed their affection by bullying them. Now, I was told the same thing by my mother, and I've heard that same explanation many times. I don't think I thought twice about it till I saw "He's Just Not That Into You," which starts with a similar scene. The little girl absorbs that information, then we jump forward to adult women who, still confused by all this, allow themselves to be treated horribly by men, believing that that's how men show their affection. How far do we let this go?

In Scotland recently, 11 and 12-year-olds were questioned about when violence is okay, as in when it's okay for a man to hit a woman.

"The children didn't agree with violence, but gave reasons to try to justify it if the woman had done something 'wrong'.  They were asked to consider whether or not a man was justified in punching his partner when he found out she had had an affair. Nearly all of the children thought that the woman deserved to be hit. In another scenario, about 80% of the children said a man had cause to slap his partner because she did not have the dinner ready on time. 'The old saying of 'If he pulls your pigtails it means he likes you', translates into violence in adulthood which girls accept as normal.'"

What is wrong with us? Seriously! This is insanity! Heaven help my son if I ever catch him hurting a girl. Of course I can tell him till I'm blue in the face that being stronger than someone else means you have to be more careful with them and respectful and helpful and NEVER gives you license to hurt them. But kids don't learn by being told. They learn by example. How thankful I am that my kids live in a home where their father treats their mother with respect and love, and we can model an equal partnership.

I'm determined not to use the "it means he likes you" excuse on my daughters. This is justifying a boy's bad behavior and requiring a girl to accept it and even be grateful for it. A boy should not have pulled your pigtail, honey, or pushed you down or thrown a rock at your head. End of story. What's-his-face shot Ronald Reagan to show his love for Jodie Foster, but we didn't say, ahh, he has a crush and doesn't know how to express it! Isn't that sweet? No way. Violence is violence. And children bullying children in any way and for any reason is not okay and no girl should have to put up with it.

Comments

[Enna Isilee]

Woah! I had NEVER thought of this, but you're so right!

[Jena]

I totally agree, if that behavior is not corrected when they are young and learning, then in the future it will be a bigger, more serious problem.

Only the best for my girls!

[katie]

AMEN! I couldn't agree more! When I was in kindergarten a boy was always bothering me by pinching, pushing, or just constant touching. I finally got the courage to talk to my teacher about it and she told me the same thing. I remember being so sad that she wouldn't help me, something simple like moving me to a different spot (we sat at tables and not our own desks) so I didn't have to be constantly distracted by him next to me. I had to endure it because "he liked me".

[Sheri]

Violence is never acceptable. I always laugh when I read articles about women doing crazy things when their husband/boyfriend is unfaithful and say I'd do the same but it's actually not funny no matter who is doing the violence. In another note, my sister & I ended up marrying two brothers. We grew up with them and they made fun of us, locked us in their playhouse, etc. when we were growing up (although never anything violent) so meaness as a youngster (which we never excused back then, by the way) doesn't necessarily translate into violence as an adult. Both are awesome husbands-respectful, gentle & loving.

[tanita]

WORD UP. (To go totally into 90's vernacular.)

[Maryhelen]

I totally agree that excusing the bad behavior is not acceptable when kids are young. It is however, a reason that boys do stupid and mean things to girls ~ because they like them and they don't know how to get the girl's attention appropriately.
So maybe there's a balance where the behavior isn't excused, but acknowledged and confronted (by an adult) and the girl involved is told that while he probably does like her, what he's done/is doing isn't ok. She should also be told that she has lots of options, the best of which just might be: walk away.
It's interesting how we have such double standards in society that we don't realize or see clearly. Great job opening our eyes a bit!

[Karen Adair]

I remember being in first grade when a boy decided to kick my shins on the way out of school. I didn't get a chance to find out if he "liked" me or not because my three older brothers were too busy chasing him around the playground to beat him up. Apparently they hadn't gotten the memo that he was only trying to ask me out. :) Or maybe they knew perfectly well that violence is just violence (which they were going to teach the boy with um...violence). My son hit a girl once and it wasn't to be nice. Found out that the girl hit him first and he had felt justified in defending himself. Relationships and equal treatment are indeed mysterious things to navigate. Painful at times, too.

[Meredith]

Could not agree more. I had a boy bite me when we were both in college (college!!!), which convinced my friends that he liked me and just didn't know how to express it. I was convinced that he had mental problems, and I never talked to him again. I felt the same way about boys who did that kind of thing when I was younger. In what world is that okay?

[Nightshade]

I can't relate to this particularly well, because when I was a little kid, no one ever had a crush on me, so I never went through the "he picks on you because he likes you" argument.

No, seriously, none of those three-foot-tall boys liked me.

But I can say that I was picked on (not because the kid liked me- he was a jerk), so my six-year-old self endured torture for a few weeks, then ran to my mother, who in turn told the teacher, who just about exploded. (I did say he was a jerk, didn't I?)

[Elentarien]

I've never thought of this before, but I do believe you're right! I also got fed that line when I was younger and some of the boys were picking on me. (Although, to be fair, they weren't being *bad*. Just annoying. But it still was not 'respectful' behavior, either.) I never thought of it much past that. But you have an excellent point. I can see how it would begin to set women up, quite early, to allow it. Scary.

Btw, its nice to see someone else picking over old stuff we were commonly taught as children. :) My mom and I do that as well and its quite interesting how many devastating deceptions get put over on people in the form of these 'little' things.

[Jenel]

It reminds me of the when my grandparents and mother thought I was overreacting when I didn't find the "beating your wife with a shovel is good for your marriage"
scene in McClintock particulary amusing. Oh what fun :)

[Adam_r_stephens]

Amen! Your perception into this issue is flawless, and anyone who disagrees would be foolish (and cruel-hearted) to do so. In my classroom, my little ones, both boys and girls, understand that discipline follows any child who hits another. That sort of behavior isn't to be tolerated, regardless of the reasons!

However, I do believe that girls/women shouldn't expect boys/men to lie down willingly to physical abuse. Physical abuse, as you mentioned, is WRONG coming from either sex. The notion that boys/men should control themselves when subjected to violence by girls/women is as absurd as though it were vice-versa.

You may disagree, but its just what I believe.

[Adam_r_stephens]

Both sexes should be held to the same amount of responsibility, when violence is involved. Sorry, didn't specify that.

[andalucy]

Is this some kind of western thing? I grew up in Maine and I never heard anyone telling little girls that if boys behaved badly to them that meant that the boys "liked" them. When boys behaved badly to me they got socked. And occasionally kicked, I'm sad to admit. Walking away would have been a better choice is some of those cases but not all. In my neck of the woods girls had to watch out for themselves.

[Emilie]

I never thought about it like this, as some other people said, but you are sooooooooooo right! I get so sick of the parents of the little boys (the five-and-under crowd) that I work with excusing their little boys violent, rude, or otherwise naughty behavior by saying "Oh, boys will be boys," but telling their little girls to behave nicely. For crying out loud, 40 years past the women's movement and we still have a double standard for behavior in a classroom setting! And even if it doesn't translate into violence in an adult relationship, the potential is very real and should be considered. I sincerely hope that society can make some improvements in this direction by the time I add my children into the mix.

[Kylie]

I agree! I especially hate it when parents keep up that excuse all the way into high school... Personally I know a guy "likes" me when he acts sweet and respectful (among other things.) It's always been a ridiculous excuse, in my opinion.

[Abby]

Men should not act like immature little boys. I am so glad you feel the way you do about this particular issue.

[Bonnie M.]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to use "He's just not that into you" to change my perceptions and not continue to feed into the excuses that we tell ourselves and our friends. Haha. Let's be honest with ourselves and our children; teach them to play no games, and to stand up for themselves and those weaker than they are.

[Rachel]

THANK YOU.

[Dr. Sallie N. Cheinsteen]

I was so proud when my mom was cutting cake for our family yesterday and was going to give a piece to my nephew who was just hovering over it. But he refused. He said, "girls go first." Man, might have just wiped away a tear. I totally agree with this post. Thanks for writing on it.

[Melody]

You tell 'em, Shannon!

But seriously, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Guys Don't Hit Girls. That's the rule. That's how it is. Case closed.

We girls need to do our part, too. I have friends that will hit guys just because they know they won't be hit back. Totally not fair or honorable. Girls shouldn't be going around hitting guys, either.

[Je Reve]

Imagine if the roles were reversed... "Oh, she just keyed your car 'cause she thinks you're hot stuff". Hahahaha. The irony.

[Jean]

Thank you for raising a respectful son (and I'm sure it also applies to your daughter also.)
I'm with Emilie in that I've seen and been told that "boys will be boys" when some young boys exhibited unacceptable behavior including spanking the bottoms of the juvenile females around them along with other harassing actions. I ran this past a professional counselor I knew who responded that boys are never too young to learn to be gentlemen. Nip it in the bud, I say! Most children can learn some proper boundaries and everyone will benefit.

[Zenny]

O__O I am forever changed by this blog entry. Thank you!

[Karalee]

Agreed! Absolutely, totally and completely agreed.

[Chachic]

Totally agree!

[Anna Elliott]

This is SO so so true, and thank you for pointing it out! It truly does only continue into adulthood. I just saw an article interview with some guy who runs a dating service that essentially coaches guys to be less nice to the women they date, because "women don't like nice guys." Seriously? I mean, seriously?

[Christen]

Oh, I hate it when parents say that! That is right up there with "boys will be boys"! And to find out that it's actually contributing to violence.. Grr..

[Annie]

So glad you posted this, and so glad that everyone agrees. I don't think I've ever heard of a little boy who tormented a little girl and actually liked her the whole time. Violence and bad behavior is not okay, no matter what the "reasoning."

[Libbi]

Amen to that. If a boy is mean to a girl when he likes her, what does he do to people he doeasn't like? Hmmmm?

[Aimee]

Thank you! I started reading your post and thought "I would tell my daughter that it wasn't ok for him to do that" and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[Katie-wa]

Shannon, I am going to bake you a cake. My fam is taking a trip to Utah this week, and I have a mind to stalk down your address and bring it to you.

Okay, I'll set your mind at ease and call that a bluff. But I love you enough to do it. Yep. Because you are my hero.

This is why I read your books. The underlying message of what you bring to the world is what I try to find. And it's beautiful.

[Tawnya]

I remember being told the same thing when I was little, but my mom let me know that was wrong. She suggested saying 'If you're trying to get my attention, just say my name and talk to me. But if you're being mean, that's wrong and I can't be your friend" (or something along those lines). So, I've always hated that "boys will be boys" attitude, and have taught my children the same (although I wonder some times if it's sinking in). I never made the connection between that idea and domestic violence, but now, having just written a research paper on domestic violence, I can see where the general attitudes in our country (and maybe everywhere) have led to unforeseen consequences. Kudos to being willing to discuss sometimes sticky topics.

[Shveta Thakrar]

This. Thank you so much.

I hope my nieces never go through this, but if they do, I will tell them no, the boys in question are not okay and may not hurt them.

[Manyrandommusings.blogspot.com]

AMEN! It's a sad state when we have to resort to the old thoughts in order to justify the wrong-doings of others. When faced with difficulties such as misconceptions and ill-composed ideas of the justification of other's actions, then we often rely on what we believe to be right, instead of looking towards what we know to be right. In the end, is it that we are afraid, or that we do not want to change? Perhaps the false ideas are ingrained deeper than we would have originally thought.

Much love,
--Hannah

[McKell]

Thank you a lot for the idea. I'm in High School right now and I'm really glad to know this so that I can look for a guy who respects me for me and won't resort to violence. Thanks again Shannon and all the people who posted great ideas and thoughts that will help me now and later in my life.

[Marianne]

Well said!

[Lilly]

i understand what you mean. my mom never said that he likes you, she would just say honey you should just stand up for yourself. some boys really do it cause they like you but if its like hitting and violence then it is sooo not good. period. :)

[Emma]

Hey... You should write a book about that!

If you have time...

[Laura]

I totally agree! Spot on!

[Meredith B.]

I totally agree with what you're saying. One note on this, though-- and it's more about the development of boys than girls. While it's certainly true that we should teach boys not to pick on kids that are weaker than them, my dad found that he was consistently picked on and harassed by boys that were smaller than him. My dad was always taller and bigger than the other boys in his class as a kid. But he wasn't hugely popular, and didn't hang out with the guys that dominated the school. My dad was good at music and track and field. He was quietly mischievous and highly intelligent. He was also a very gentle kid, who hated to hurt anyone.

But smaller, more aggressive boys would choose him to pick on, because they knew that although he was big and there was a certain prestige to showing their dominance over him, my dad would never fight back.

Every once in a while someone would finally push my dad so far that he'd retaliate physically, in order to make the bullying and persecution stop, and of course he was always very upset afterward, at himself as well as the circumstances that he felt pushed him into behaving that way.

When he tells me those stories, I can feel the tension still simmering there-- the frustration and resentment at other people backing him up to the wall, forcing him to use the physical strength that gave him such an advantage over them that nobody ever saw such a fight as fair. Nobody ever saw my dad as the victim in those situations.

[Ali]

Thank you so much for writing this post. I completely agree with what you said. When I was younger, some boys would tease me/make fun of me because they 'liked' me. I never had an issue with this because they were not serious and were sure to let me know they were joking.I think there is a difference between this and actual abluse. Being a woman, I can understand how any kind of physical violence should not be tolerated, whether or not the boy 'likes' the girl. I definitely will teach that lesson to my children.

[Jeanna]

And on a similar note, when I was a teenager I was so ticked off to hear an older lady whom I loved and respected telling a group of girls that it was our job to keep relationships in line sexually speaking. She said that boys just weren't very good at controlling their hormones and it was our job to make sure that we controlled things. Hello, I had hormones too! I was so peeved that the guys were pretty much allowed to behave however they felt like because apparently they're apes and incapable of controlling themselves. It was up to the girls to behave well. (I think that clearly it should be up to everyone to behave respectfully toward others, not just the girls' job.)

[Ruth Donnelly]

I agree--excellent post!

[Heather]

Shannon, it's posts like this that reaffirm that you're pretty much the greatest and my kids will read all your books.

[Hedgielib]

I enjoyed this post when I originally read it--and then today it came back to mind when I, as a children's librarian, was reading book reviews.

I blogged about my combined reaction to your post and three different reviews of a book that celebrated the fact the boy in the book was making the heroine's life miserable.

http://hedgehoglibrarian.com/?p=855

Thank you for making a thoughtful point, it was eye opening.

[Allegra]

I've never thought about this, but I couldn't agree more. I got the same "he likes you and doesn't know how to show it" excuse in elementary school, and I accepted it. I only hope that future generations won't have to deal with this issue.

[Raindrops]

Boys are so strange - I'm glad I'm a girl!!:)
--Raindrops

[Rinna-girl]

Me too. But it would be interesting to see in a boy's point of view.

[Raindrops]

Rinna-girl, not if the boy has strange harmones and shoots a spit-ball at you to get your attention.haha...:)